2007-07-03T00:56:05.063ZNomicronNomicron ATOM feedhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68712007-07-02T20:27:26.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromisePitboss puts forward a reasonable suggestion: that a Player ceases to be a Player when he violates the Rules. However, this would be very difficult to enforce, as Jef has pointed out. Perhaps we should consider a corollary: the Round moves into Convention when a Paradox is demonstrated. In past rounds we have observed concerted and accidental effort toPitboss puts forward a reasonable suggestion: that a Player ceases to be a Player when he violates the Rules. However, this would be very difficult to enforce, as Jef has pointed out. Perhaps we should consider a corollary: the Round moves into Convention when a Paradox is demonstrated. In past rounds we have observed concerted and accidental effort tohttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68702007-07-02T17:54:16.000-00:06Motion: Player StatusThat was my thinking on it... if current observers wanted to start playing again, they are more than welcome to, in my opinion. As you point out, this will get cleaned up at the end of the convention. -JefThat was my thinking on it... if current observers wanted to start playing again, they are more than welcome to, in my opinion. As you point out, this will get cleaned up at the end of the convention. -Jefhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68692007-07-02T17:38:20.000-00:06Motion: Player StatusThe earlier motion "Cleanup" turned all the observers into inactive players. This motion will remove the active/inactive distinction. As I see it, the combined result of the two motions is that the observers are players. Which isn't a problem, as they'll lose player status at the end of convention, and motions have no quorum.The earlier motion "Cleanup" turned all the observers into inactive players. This motion will remove the active/inactive distinction. As I see it, the combined result of the two motions is that the observers are players. Which isn't a problem, as they'll lose player status at the end of convention, and motions have no quorum.http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68682007-07-02T05:07:42.000-00:06JoiningI vote for as well. Welcome, iaretheman! -pitboss :-)I vote for as well. Welcome, iaretheman! -pitboss :-)http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68672007-07-02T04:16:42.000-00:06JoiningI also vote in favor BobTHJI also vote in favor BobTHJhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68662007-07-01T20:30:27.000-00:06Motion: Player StatusChange Rule 3 to read: Title: Players A player of Nomicron is a person who actively participates in the game. Each player has a player name by which they are referred to in Nomicron. A player chooses a name when joining Nomicron and may only change it during the convention. While the game is in convention, an individual becomes a player when aChange Rule 3 to read: Title: Players A player of Nomicron is a person who actively participates in the game. Each player has a player name by which they are referred to in Nomicron. A player chooses a name when joining Nomicron and may only change it during the convention. While the game is in convention, an individual becomes a player when ahttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68652007-07-01T20:21:58.000-00:06Draft Motion: Try to Follow the RulesThis is just a draft at this point... I'll submit it as a motion after adequate discussion: Change Rule 1 to read: Title: Follow the Rules The game of Nomicron consists of a set of rules. Each rule has three parts: a number, a title, and text. All players must endeavor to abide by all rules currently in effect, in the form in which they are inThis is just a draft at this point... I'll submit it as a motion after adequate discussion: Change Rule 1 to read: Title: Follow the Rules The game of Nomicron consists of a set of rules. Each rule has three parts: a number, a title, and text. All players must endeavor to abide by all rules currently in effect, in the form in which they are inhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68642007-07-01T20:12:00.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseAs I see it, we have several issues: 1. Game actions should not be retroactive: Looney's proposed change to <a href="/rule/104">Rule 104</a> addresses this, and I will support that change. 2. Errors or missing recordings of game actions by officers need to be taken into account. I've always thought of corrections not as "gameAs I see it, we have several issues: 1. Game actions should not be retroactive: Looney's proposed change to <a href="/rule/104">Rule 104</a> addresses this, and I will support that change. 2. Errors or missing recordings of game actions by officers need to be taken into account. I've always thought of corrections not as "gamehttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68632007-07-01T15:05:21.000-00:06JoiningSure, why not? Let's have a motion: Motion: Are you the man? Admit iaretheman as an active player of Nomicron. I vote in favor of this motion--as will everyone else; it's really just a formality. ______________________________ ______________________________ ________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.Sure, why not? Let's have a motion: Motion: Are you the man? Admit iaretheman as an active player of Nomicron. I vote in favor of this motion--as will everyone else; it's really just a formality. ______________________________ ______________________________ ________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68622007-07-01T02:02:39.000-00:06JoiningCould my player name be "iaretheman"? On Jun 30, 4:54 pm, "Nomicron Administrator" <a...@nomicron.org> wrote:Could my player name be "iaretheman"? On Jun 30, 4:54 pm, "Nomicron Administrator" <a...@nomicron.org> wrote:http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68612007-06-30T20:48:46.000-00:06JoiningAbsolutely... what would you like your player name to be? We are currently in Convention, so only Rules 1 - 10 are in effect. I will submit a motion for you to become a player after hearing back from you. -JefAbsolutely... what would you like your player name to be? We are currently in Convention, so only Rules 1 - 10 are in effect. I will submit a motion for you to become a player after hearing back from you. -Jefhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68602007-06-30T20:27:07.000-00:06JoiningCould I Join nomicron?Could I Join nomicron?http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68592007-06-30T16:53:56.000-00:068th Convention - NomicronWikiI updated the convention page with the results of the recent motions. Cleanup II failed and Cleanup IIa passed. [link] Sent from my iPhoneI updated the convention page with the results of the recent motions. Cleanup II failed and Cleanup IIa passed. [link] Sent from my iPhonehttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68582007-06-29T04:16:49.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseI still dont like the idea of changing rule 1. What if the player makes an innocent mistake? I makes mistakes all the time in these games and most of them would have resulted me in becoming a non-player with that kind of ruling. What or who is to decide if someone broke the rules? I can see adding it into the mutable section as part ofI still dont like the idea of changing rule 1. What if the player makes an innocent mistake? I makes mistakes all the time in these games and most of them would have resulted me in becoming a non-player with that kind of ruling. What or who is to decide if someone broke the rules? I can see adding it into the mutable section as part ofhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68572007-06-28T13:54:54.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseNo. Judicial Review Period doesn't affect the role of the Judge, nor the appeal process, so it need not be mentioned in those rules. Appeals to old RFJs could serve as loopholes by which major retroactive changes could be made in spite of these new rules, but presumably players will vote down any troublesome appeals.No. Judicial Review Period doesn't affect the role of the Judge, nor the appeal process, so it need not be mentioned in those rules. Appeals to old RFJs could serve as loopholes by which major retroactive changes could be made in spite of these new rules, but presumably players will vote down any troublesome appeals.http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68562007-06-28T13:20:54.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseAlthough this seems to be a move in the right direction, I argue that the last sentence of (draft) Rule 104, although necessary in its current form, negates any value to the change: "No game action may have retroactive application, _except for those game actions that are needed to resolve disputes over the course of past events_ (i.e., RFJsAlthough this seems to be a move in the right direction, I argue that the last sentence of (draft) Rule 104, although necessary in its current form, negates any value to the change: "No game action may have retroactive application, _except for those game actions that are needed to resolve disputes over the course of past events_ (i.e., RFJshttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68552007-06-28T07:21:59.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseI like this as well. As far as breaking the rules though, the judicial review period would cover that. You can request for judgement on legalities of moves, actions or otherwise and it would then be judged upon. Do we need to also need to add judicial review wording to rules #209 and #210 as well? What do you think?I like this as well. As far as breaking the rules though, the judicial review period would cover that. You can request for judgement on legalities of moves, actions or otherwise and it would then be judged upon. Do we need to also need to add judicial review wording to rules #209 and #210 as well? What do you think?http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68542007-06-28T03:56:03.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseI like this. It essentially accomplishes what I was attempting. However, it does not solve the Rule 1 quandary....can a player violate the rules? I don't see a way around this other than: * Accept the fact that rules can be broken (a fundamental law of the universe) OR * Amend Rule 1 to declare specifically what occurs when rules are brokenI like this. It essentially accomplishes what I was attempting. However, it does not solve the Rule 1 quandary....can a player violate the rules? I don't see a way around this other than: * Accept the fact that rules can be broken (a fundamental law of the universe) OR * Amend Rule 1 to declare specifically what occurs when rules are brokenhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68532007-06-28T03:28:23.000-00:06Draft: Anti-Retroactivity CompromiseThe following is intended to be a less-objectionable substitute for BobTHJ's motion "Violations & Retroactivity," which was defeated. At the moment, it is only posted for discussion, and is NOT being officially submitted. Draft Motion: Anti-Retroactivity Compromise The following texts shall replace the corresponding rules in theirThe following is intended to be a less-objectionable substitute for BobTHJ's motion "Violations & Retroactivity," which was defeated. At the moment, it is only posted for discussion, and is NOT being officially submitted. Draft Motion: Anti-Retroactivity Compromise The following texts shall replace the corresponding rules in theirhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68522007-06-25T23:44:56.000-00:06Convention Update"Cleanup" by Looney has passed "Violations & Retroactivity" by BobTHJ has failed [link]"Cleanup" by Looney has passed "Violations & Retroactivity" by BobTHJ has failed [link]http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68512007-06-25T04:08:10.000-00:06WikiSo, the google group "page" functionality seems to have stopped working with Firefox, and never has worked at all with Safari. So, the only way to edit the 8th Convention page is presumably with IE in Windoze. Ugh. As such, I have set up a mediawiki, which was so very simple to set up thanks to apt-get on Ubuntu :).So, the google group "page" functionality seems to have stopped working with Firefox, and never has worked at all with Safari. So, the only way to edit the 8th Convention page is presumably with IE in Windoze. Ugh. As such, I have set up a mediawiki, which was so very simple to set up thanks to apt-get on Ubuntu :).http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68492007-06-21T16:03:18.000-00:06Pitboss wins Round 8Heh. I've only just got my broadband up and running and I return to find the game finished. I'm somewhat relieved not to have all the catching up to do (though I suspect I'll skim through the game's events at some point). I'm not especially surprised to find it finished as a result of the retroactive shenanigins that were just taking place as I lost myHeh. I've only just got my broadband up and running and I return to find the game finished. I'm somewhat relieved not to have all the catching up to do (though I suspect I'll skim through the game's events at some point). I'm not especially surprised to find it finished as a result of the retroactive shenanigins that were just taking place as I lost myhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68482007-06-21T08:38:27.000-00:06View this page "8th Convention"Forgot to keep the initial mutables, I strongly suggest voting "no" on the motion "Cleanup II" and voting "YES" on the motion "Cleanup IIA" Click on [link] - or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't work.Forgot to keep the initial mutables, I strongly suggest voting "no" on the motion "Cleanup II" and voting "YES" on the motion "Cleanup IIA" Click on [link] - or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't work.http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68472007-06-21T08:33:51.000-00:06View this page "8th Convention"Because of the following change made to that convention rule ", however willful or accidental violation a rule does not constitute a paradox by violating of this rule." During convention, Convention rules ARE the BASIC form of the game. The "Per Round" rules are set in motion during conventions. If you want to explain paradox in aBecause of the following change made to that convention rule ", however willful or accidental violation a rule does not constitute a paradox by violating of this rule." During convention, Convention rules ARE the BASIC form of the game. The "Per Round" rules are set in motion during conventions. If you want to explain paradox in ahttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68462007-06-21T04:43:44.000-00:06View this page "8th Convention"Why, exactly? BobTHJWhy, exactly? BobTHJhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68452007-06-21T04:28:04.000-00:06View this page "8th Convention"Added another Motion for the Ruleset, keeping the basic immutables and removing the rest, similar to Jef motion in convention 7. Also edited one of the other motions that had the date of motion the same as the due date on the votes. Click on [link] -Added another Motion for the Ruleset, keeping the basic immutables and removing the rest, similar to Jef motion in convention 7. Also edited one of the other motions that had the date of motion the same as the due date on the votes. Click on [link] -http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68442007-06-21T04:20:32.000-00:06View this page "8th Convention"Added my votes. Would also like to add that changing the convention rules would not be acceptable. Now, adding a extra Immutible rule to explain the scope and purpose of subgames, in which no retro-active changes may be made would be acceptable. I would also like to see that sub-games in and of themselves have no bearing what-so-ever on the main game, unlessAdded my votes. Would also like to add that changing the convention rules would not be acceptable. Now, adding a extra Immutible rule to explain the scope and purpose of subgames, in which no retro-active changes may be made would be acceptable. I would also like to see that sub-games in and of themselves have no bearing what-so-ever on the main game, unlesshttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68432007-06-19T16:30:44.000-00:068th ConventionI've posted the pending motions on the 8th Convention page on the google group--add your votes directly to that page, or send them to v...@nomicron.org. [link]I've posted the pending motions on the 8th Convention page on the google group--add your votes directly to that page, or send them to v...@nomicron.org. [link]http://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68422007-06-18T18:47:27.000-00:06Motion: Violations & RetroactivityOther nomics have no problem elegantly handling rules violations. Revoking someone's player status for accidentally violating a rule seems extreme. This would lead to one of two cases: 1. There would be no players (or at least no player who could remain a player for long) 2. The game would be reduced to such simplicity that the likelihood ofOther nomics have no problem elegantly handling rules violations. Revoking someone's player status for accidentally violating a rule seems extreme. This would lead to one of two cases: 1. There would be no players (or at least no player who could remain a player for long) 2. The game would be reduced to such simplicity that the likelihood ofhttp://nomicron.org/feeditem.cron?feed_item_id=68412007-06-18T18:26:26.000-00:06Motion: Violations & RetroactivityI vote No on these motions. Basically, I believe that it is both too abstract/undefined in parts and too specific (for an immutable rule) in other parts. In addition, the rule is too long and of too large in scope. I'd be willing to consider a set of smaller, more targeted rules that worked together.I vote No on these motions. Basically, I believe that it is both too abstract/undefined in parts and too specific (for an immutable rule) in other parts. In addition, the rule is too long and of too large in scope. I'd be willing to consider a set of smaller, more targeted rules that worked together.