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Referendum

Appeal the following RFJ, changing the following ruling:

6010.2 Infinite Possibilities

Case
Creator	Pitboss
Create Date	2007-05-27 03:10
Statement	Since it is legal for players to adjust their attributes and actions (other than rule-changes) retroactively, it is impossible for play to continue due to the paradox created by the current game state being indeterminable.
Arguments	The rules do not specifically prohibit the retroactive actions other than rule-changes. Recent judgments (Case 6008 and Case 6009) have validated this. However, with this interpretation of the rules, further play becomes impossible due to the fact that the current state of the game (i.e. players' scores, armies, etc.) cannot be determined with accuracy. Many of the rules assume a current game state and without such constitute many paradoxes (e.g. Do I have 0 skeletons to sacrifice or 12? Both, actually.) ---- The following is not part of my argument, but I place it here for posterity's sake. As one of only two players of all 8 rounds of nomicron, I can tell you this is not the first time an issue like this has arisen. Round 1, in fact, ended when the Officer Of Money made mistakes calculating everyone's "cron" according to a complex and ad hoc set of rules. This is one reason why I consistently vote against all complex, open-ended sub-games. They rarely amount to more than keeping track of largely meaningless numbers and performing exhausting arithmetic, while at the same time creating holes large enough to end the round, one way or another. But, I guess that's why we play :-)
Decision	False
Judge	BobTHJ
Reasoning	I think Pitboss has made a valid case that retroactive actions are certainly permissible and unregulated in the rules. Rule 113 permits any action that is not regulated, and Rule 104 only regulates rule-changes. However, I do not believe this constitutes a round-ending paradox. While it seems possible under the current rules to take actions in previous turns this does not cause us to have an undefined or unknown gamestate (it could, but the situation has not yet arisen). When a retroactive action is made, there is nothing preventing us from rolling back the gamestate to that point, making the adjustment for the action, and then re-applying other actions that were rolled-back. It is certainly troublesome and difficult, but not impossible. As of now the correct gamestate can be determined with certainty as either one of two states, based upon the outcome of the appeal of Case 6009. I recommend that Rule 104 be amended ASAP to plug this hole before it can be abused to end the round.

( 8 - 8: Create [6010.1] by Pitboss)
( 8 - 9: Ruling [6010.2] by BobTHJ)

To:

Infinite Possibilities

Case
Creator	Pitboss
Create Date	2007-05-27 03:10
Statement	Since it is legal for players to adjust their attributes and actions (other than rule-changes) retroactively, it is impossible for play to continue due to the paradox created by the current game state being indeterminable.
Arguments	The rules do not specifically prohibit the retroactive actions other than rule-changes. Recent judgments (Case 6008 and Case 6009) have validated this. However, with this interpretation of the rules, further play becomes impossible due to the fact that the current state of the game (i.e. players' scores, armies, etc.) cannot be determined with accuracy. Many of the rules assume a current game state and without such constitute many paradoxes (e.g. Do I have 0 skeletons to sacrifice or 12? Both, actually.) ---- The following is not part of my argument, but I place it here for posterity's sake. As one of only two players of all 8 rounds of nomicron, I can tell you this is not the first time an issue like this has arisen. Round 1, in fact, ended when the Officer Of Money made mistakes calculating everyone's "cron" according to a complex and ad hoc set of rules. This is one reason why I consistently vote against all complex, open-ended sub-games. They rarely amount to more than keeping track of largely meaningless numbers and performing exhausting arithmetic, while at the same time creating holes large enough to end the round, one way or another. But, I guess that's why we play :-)
Decision	True
Judge	BobTHJ
Reasoning	I don't think the good judge considered the fact that currently, there are an infinite number of changes that can be made at any time in the past by any and all players. In fact, each retroactive action will likely be followed by many more retroactive actions by other players based on this new information. I have no less than 15 retroactive actions planned that will affect other players and will significantly change the game state starting with Turn 8-3. That number will likely grow as other players react to my actions and I decide to undo some or all of my retroactive actions. For example, if I make a retroactive change, another player could make a retroactive change before mine, which will likely induce me to change my first retroactive action which will cause them to change theirs, and so on. We can try to keep this up, but the works are very likely to get gummed up. Also, I will not vote for a change to Rule 104 so this loophole will remain until the end of the round (as a change to Rule 104 will require unanimity). I strongly encourage the good players of Nomicron to recognize that the game will not be playable going forward and to overrule this judgment. Otherwise, chaos lies ahead.

Player Comments

Other versions: 176.1   176.2